EPISODE 15 - The Criminalization of Testosterone with Adryan Corcione
SHOW NOTES:
In the premier episode for Season 2 of BHL…, Shawna breaks with tradition and dives deep into a topic that should be a War On Women song, but just isn’t…yet? She speaks with freelance drug journalist Adryan Corcione about an article they wrote titled, “How the Criminalization of Testosterone Attacks Gender Variant People.'' Listen in to hear about how you can’t write a song about everything, the erasure of trans men, the hurdles gender variant people face when accessing basic healthcare, the risk of being outed at the dentist due to bureaucratic controlled substance policies, harm reduction, and more.
The official sponsors of this episode are First Defense Krav Maga out of Herndon, VA & womensprideNFT.
Episode transcripts, important links, and ways to support Shawna and this podcast can be found at shawnapotter.com. Everything War On Women can be found at linktr.ee/waronwomen. For bonus episodes, behind the scenes content, and the chance to make special requests and get shoutouts on air, become a patron at patreon.com/shawnapotter.
Thanks to Brooks Harlan for chopping up War On Women’s song “Her?” to create the podcast theme song. Main podcast photo: Justin Borucki.
Episode Links/resources:
https://filtermag.org/testosterone-criminalization/
https://chuffed.org/project/pages-re-entry-fund
https://blackandpinkpenpals.org/ and https://www.blackandpink.org/
Erin's Informed Consent HRT map of the US: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1DxyOTw8dI8n96BHFF2JVUMK7bXsRKtzA&hl=en_US&ll=-3.81666561775622e-14%2C-78.61433245&z=1
Joe Biden Bonus: https://www.inquirer.com/opinion/commentary/crack-pipes-free-smoking-kit-white-house-20220210.html
Adryan’s Book Recommendations:
Drug War Capitalism
Fighting for Space
Chasing the Scream
Testosterone: An Unauthorized Biography
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
{intro music}
Shawna Potter: Welcome to But Her Lyrics...the show where we delve into the meaning and politics behind the songs of War On Women and other artists you love. I’m Shawna Potter, singer and lyricist for War On Women - and your host.
This is the official start of season two of BHL and I’m getting weird by starting with a topic that should absolutely be a WOW song, but for whatever reason, just isn’t yet. I’ll be chatting with Adryan Corcione, a self-described freelance drug journalist, about an article they wrote at the end of 2021 titled “How the Criminalization of Testosterone Attacks Gender Variant People'' for Filter Mag, an online harm reduction magazine. Before we dig in, this episode is sponsored by First Defense Krav Maga, hello to Nick and the whole team there. Also womensprideNFT, a project that my badass patron Stephan is involved in. Also a huge shoutout to Recruit Melissa P. for her support.
So I like to think my band is full of trans accomplices: our song “Second Wave Goodbye” is basically about trans rights - and will be featured in an upcoming podcast episode - I spent a lot of my early activism working with local trans communities, we currently have a GNC person in the band, but I have not found a way to write a song about the struggles of trans men and other people using testosterone that has seemed appropriate. As we venture into this new season, where I’ll be taking deep dives on WOW songs, other people’s songs, and even topics that could & should be WOW songs, Let’s clear something up now: no one has to write a song about something, and that no one can write songs about everything. You can care about an issue and just not find the inspiration needed to put pen to pad, or even just not find the right way to sing about it, especially if it’s something that you have no personal experience with. So that alone, the fact that I have not written a song about T being a controlled substance and its effects on the trans community, that by itself is not a problem. But interestingly, it does feed into a common problem trans men and trans masculine people have, which is that of erasure.
The first time I heard directly about the erasure of trans men, I was doing a training on how to respond to street harassment at a TDOR event, maybe 10 years ago, and a trans guy said “now that I present as male, I no longer get cat-called, but instead I find that when I am in public spacesI am completely ignored, like I don’t exist.” It was sad to hear that. And it is such a perfect example of how harassment is different for everyone. There are so many people that wish we were left alone in public. But to be acknowledged as a human being that exists - that’s crucial, and something everyone deserves. Now I will not pretend to know all the reasons why the erasure of trans men is a thing, and who knows if I’ll ever write a song about. But I’m hoping my upcoming interview with Adryan will make visible one of the issues that many trans men, and others, face today.
[interview - please ignore all time codes and get in touch about any errors]
Shawna Potter
Um, Adryan Corcione. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. Ah please introduce yourself to everyone.
00:07.58
Adryan Corcione
Thanks for having me on Shawna I am a freelancer drug journalist I am also a picc abolitionist so this is a great example of what we're going to talk today about the overlap of abolition and drug journalism particularly in how it impacts. Transgender non-binary inters sex and other gender variant people.
00:29.45
Shawna Potter
Yeah I mean yes, you are the right person for this talk obviously? um, but you know I just want to say I looked at your website. You're also a speaker you've written for every major awesome outlet and you're a photographer and what I love about your photography page is that it's.
00:43.26
Adryan Corcione
Yes.
00:48.23
Shawna Potter
Just live music and protests which is exactly perfect for but her lyrics. So um, everyone go to Adrian's website and check them out. They're they're wonderful photos. Um, so my band saw a tweet of yours in our timeline sharing an article that you wrote for filter magazine.
00:49.58
Adryan Corcione
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:07.33
Shawna Potter
And it's called and it's called the criminalization of testosterone attacks gender variant people and you mentioned wanting to do some interviews about it. Um I don't know if you had this one in mind coming on a punk rep podcast. But I thought this would be a perfect topic for Bhl to dig into deeper. Because this absolutely should be a war on women's song. Um, can you sum up the core issue here. What are we talking about.
01:32.40
Adryan Corcione
Yes, absolutely So What we're talking about here. We're talking about gender affirming hormone replacement Therapy. We're talking about people who use testosterone so this could be transgender men who are looking for the masculinization effects of it. Um, nonbinary people who are looking for more androggenous features Intersex people who may have like medical medical reasoning for it or they may also engage in that for gender affirming purposes because there are Cis cisgender men who take.
02:02.30
Shawna Potter
Um.
02:07.73
Adryan Corcione
Testosterone for purely medical reasons. Um, so that's kind of the overlap of of Hrt. However, from what we know about um anabolic steroid abuse and how the government tends to use prohibitionist drug policing.
02:13.40
Shawna Potter
M.
02:26.84
Adryan Corcione
To Target Drug abuse which we all know doesn't work. But I digress we're still here. Ah yeah, and there was just ah, a few different pieces of legislation that criminalize testosterone as a controlled substance under the controlled substance act. Um. Enforced by the drug enforcement agency the Dea and this has decades of history. So in 1990 there is the first criminalization of metabolic steroids act it was sponsored by um, democrat Bill Hughes who was the. It's close to home because that is my um Bill Hughes is represent represented the constituency where I grew up and that even my high school had a whole like theater where I used to perform music again when I was a teenager. Um, but yeah, and then Joe Biden um
03:12.34
Shawna Potter
Um.
03:25.58
Adryan Corcione
Was part of the 2004 kind of advancement of all of this but it absolutely like these measures were targeting cisgender men who are in athletics to um, you know Curb their. Ah, use of kind of performance enhancers and since we live in a transantagonistic society already. Um, those people weren't necessarily Considered. Um when this was being criminalized so this is kind of like collateral damage of. All of that and I think there is like a larger issue that is happening here about how um about the competition and capitalist nature of ah, professional sports and also body dysmorphia not being limited to gender nonconforming people by any means.
04:09.87
Shawna Potter
Um.
04:17.37
Adryan Corcione
And how it is even really hurtful for assist people. Um and it hurts everybody.
04:22.10
Shawna Potter
So so this is just a case of this thing that's been law for a while right preventing performance enhancing drugs. Um, and then the bureaucracy just not catching up with the fact that people use testosterone for different reasons. Um.
04:27.57
Adryan Corcione
This is.
04:36.70
Adryan Corcione
Right? yeah.
04:41.44
Shawna Potter
Now I I can't imagine what it must be like for people who are Trans or gender nonconforming to access Health care. Um I I have a hard time with Health care right? and I'm white and saysz and like I'm probably middle class because I can always go move in with my mom if I needed to um.
04:53.85
Adryan Corcione
Well.
04:59.37
Adryan Corcione
Um, of a of a.
05:01.16
Shawna Potter
But like sometimes I have dental sometimes I don't I don't know the difference between Medicare and medicaid sometimes things cost money sometimes I don't I don't understand it. Um, so obviously it's harder for everyone else. Can you give us examples of what trans and gender nonconforming folks have to go through for basic health care to to even get.
05:07.94
Adryan Corcione
Are.
05:20.96
Shawna Potter
Testosterone If that's what they need.
05:22.97
Adryan Corcione
Yeah, um, so to access gender affirming care it depends on your state because there could be barriers so in some states. Um, you may need to see a therapist for. Six months or a period of time. So a mental health. But yeah for so a mental health professional can decide whether to believe you that you are the gender that you say you are um, we don't do that for.
05:42.37
Shawna Potter
Six months whoa
05:53.68
Shawna Potter
And that's probably someone assigned to you right? like that's not even necessarily your chosen therapist or is it different.
05:59.59
Adryan Corcione
Right? I mean well it can't I guess it depends of what is chosen right? because not all therapists have the power to do this. So if somebody has a relationship with the type of therapist that they maybe have been talking about these things. Um, if that person doesn't have the you know credentials to because these are these are letters that you would take to go to a clinic to get these things to say Oh I've gone and done this thing and similarly that letter needing a letter to kind of explain this thing. Um.
06:25.36
Shawna Potter
Or.
06:36.00
Adryan Corcione
That is particular what is needed for like surgery so in either to go to a surgeon. You need some side of certification by somebody a medical professional who specializes in gender affirming care to be like this person. Ah, is definitely this gender and also they need they are seeking this type of surgery and also Insurance plays a part in this right because it deems what is medically necessary because that can also be used to deny people the care that is medically necessary and a care that they Deserve. Um.
06:59.59
Shawna Potter
Right.
07:10.21
Adryan Corcione
So yeah, so there's there's lots of bureaucratic stuff going on before somebody can even step into the office to get their um testosterone because it is It can be such a long process. There's something called the model of informed consent which is a more progressive and like favorable.
07:19.20
Shawna Potter
Oh.
07:29.90
Adryan Corcione
Measure where you don't have to go to a therapist. You can just walk into a planned parenthood that has been offering hrt for a handful of years now where you can walk in I'm transgender I'm nonbinary I would like to go on gender affirming hormone therapy um to be like okay we believe you here you know. It. It'll probably take a ah lot of waiting. But um, when I did it. Um, you know I I went in and said I want this thing and then I was able to walk out with a prescription. Um, so it is possible. Yeah, but I also lived in Philadelphia at the time.
07:59.54
Shawna Potter
That's amazing. Yeah yeah, now do when I was reading your article. Ah, the Pdmp came up.
08:03.88
Adryan Corcione
So it's definitely not ah, not everywhere like it should be.
08:14.64
Adryan Corcione
Yes, yes, it's a prescription drug monitoring program. Um, and that is essentially like a database that medical professional and law enforcement can access of everybody who is on a controlled substance. So.
08:16.60
Shawna Potter
What is Pdmp What is that tell us about that.
08:34.13
Adryan Corcione
This could be testosterone. This could be adderall anything that is prescribed by a doctor that falls under the controlled substance act and it's scheduled in some way. So um, yeah, right? Yes, it's definitely weird.
08:43.28
Shawna Potter
That seems weird right to have for cops to be able to access your medical records. Okay, just making sure.
08:52.79
Adryan Corcione
Um, definitely weird right? because like hypothetically you know you could see like the police have access to what people are taking and we don't know how that can be used. Um, right. Um, and then you have really awkward situations So like in my article. For instance, there's another ah filter Contributor Ml. Um, and they went to um, a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist was able to access this information. So um, that person was outed really without like you know before even approaching that and having the autonomy to choose whether or not they were going to do it. Um, and yeah, like that happened to be in a dentist one time so I was just like it's not really relevant for my dentist to know that.
09:44.47
Shawna Potter
That that you're taking a hormone replacement therapy or yeah.
09:46.41
Adryan Corcione
Um, right because when I go throughout the world. It's um, you know it doesn't show I would like my dentists to miss to gender me correctly, but sometimes I'm just in and out there and I would rather just get in and out if I have a cleaning that's only a half hour right
10:02.35
Shawna Potter
Yeah, what does a teeth cleaning have to do with what you're putting in your body.
10:04.46
Adryan Corcione
Um, um, right right? So yes, you have awkward situations like that and obviously this is like set a system set up for people to be harassed for people to endure more violence because um, if it. Yeah, it's just a really,. It's ah it's a dangerous.. It's a dangerous game to play.
10:28.10
Shawna Potter
Um, now does this contribute to the ways in which Trans men experience erasure. Do do you feel comfortable speaking to that at all.
10:39.57
Adryan Corcione
Um, sure I I guess I can speak for my experience as a non-binary person who's on testosterone. Um, but and I think like the common thread here um is more encompassing for transgender folks and like particularly like with this. Theme of athletics and testosterone of what we see right now with these bills all over the country that are banning transgender girls and women from competing on the team that is most affirming to their gender because of this biological essentialism or. You know, just on that term up of just ah men or men women or women. You're biologically determined by whatever sex or gender you are signed at Birth But what we know about gender is that these things are not true. Your gender is not fixed. Um, it can change over time and. You know a transgender woman's testosterone levels. Absolutely do not make her more enhanced or like and it's not cheating um right? and also it it brings and like personally I am curious about this especially for transgender men who are athletes where it's like a lot of this is targeting.
11:41.36
Shawna Potter
Oh.
11:56.30
Adryan Corcione
Trans women because of what we know about Trans misogyny but I'm always like well what about transgender men who are on testosterone because that is totally like left out and I think from like a Trans Exclusionary Radical feminist point of view. Um, of course they don't see transgender men as actual men. Um.
11:57.68
Shawna Potter
Yes.
12:11.91
Shawna Potter
Right.
12:15.29
Adryan Corcione
So but yeah, but like hypothetically what would that look like if someone who is assigned female at Birth is taking testosterone. That's not seen as cheating as much as a transgender woman so it's like kind of unique and how um Trans feminine people face those like added added oppressions on top of each other.
12:24.46
Shawna Potter
Moon.
12:35.24
Adryan Corcione
Um, but yeah, it just gets into really seedy territory where we're making a lot of assumptions about testosterone that gives it a lot more credit than actually it is to be honest because yeah, yeah.
12:43.90
Shawna Potter
Ah, right? and like me I'm like let's not do that I'm not into giving testosterone more credit than it deserves but that's the Killjoy feminist in me probably ah.
12:52.41
Adryan Corcione
Right? Yes, absolutely there is a great book I forget the author but it's testosterone a a history that came out I think this came out in 2020 but um, it is. All about the history of testosterone and kind of like undergoes this social history of like we have these all of these assumptions about testosterone makes people violent and angry and yada yada yada all these things that are really just like um biological essentialism and just. It's giving it way more credit. Um than it actually gets because it's it's a hormone and also Cis women do have testosterone too. Um, so yeah.
13:30.57
Shawna Potter
Um, yeah, right? Um, So how does this issue of the criminalization of testosterone. How does that fit in with the general Erosion. Of Trans rights these days. Um aren't aren't things getting I feel like things are getting worse for Trans people right now like more laws are being enacted that limit their rights. How does this fit in.
14:00.93
Adryan Corcione
Yeah, um, I'm thinking of that anti lgbt bill in Florida about schools because there's like definitely an overlap with um, um, schools being particularly trans antagonistic and just education systems.
14:05.86
Shawna Potter
And.
14:18.37
Adryan Corcione
An overall anti Lg Bt Um, sorry can you repeat the question again.
14:26.90
Shawna Potter
Sure, Yeah, um, how does this issue fit in with the general erosion of Trans rights I mean really, you could just kind of affirm for us that like yes things are getting worse and and here's the status of this criminalization right now is it changing is it getting better.
14:31.32
Adryan Corcione
Um, right? um.
14:41.23
Adryan Corcione
Yeah, so particularly with like access to hormones. Um, when when you have any controlled Substance. So If there's people listening to it who've ever hadn't been prescribed a stimulant. There are these similar barriers of like you can only. Um. There's only a certain amount that can be prescribed to you. You need to keep going and seeing a doctor So like unlike for say a diabetes medication that is not a controlled Substance. You can get away with not going to a doctor for years because of good R res and something like that. However to get Naturalal prescription to get a testosterone prescription alike.
14:59.98
Shawna Potter
Ah.
15:10.57
Shawna Potter
Um.
15:17.50
Adryan Corcione
Like you only have an X amount that you can use up so you need to keep on going back to the doctor if you're uninsured that's gets more and more expensive just for somebody to say hey you still? Yes, this is still medically necessary for you to have.
15:31.68
Shawna Potter
Um, yeah, right? and and and getting to the doctor affording to go to the doctor having a doctor that affirms the gender you are That's already hurdle and so to be forced to keep going back is is just another.
15:33.81
Adryan Corcione
Um, as opposed to anything else right.
15:43.13
Adryan Corcione
Right? yeah. Yeah, and especially in rural areas that don't have access to like these like gender like Lgbt Care clinics are very few and far between.
15:51.37
Shawna Potter
Thing.
16:00.20
Shawna Potter
So is there anything about this issue that you feel doesn't get talked about enough or something that you wish I asked you about the criminalization of testosterone.
16:12.13
Adryan Corcione
Yeah, well I think um with the what kind of inspired this article is that I had personal experience of the hostility from the pharmacy then just like not really understanding like particularly with needles. It's always I'm always arguing with the pharmacy about which needles I need because testosterone is a very thick substance so you need a different needle to inject than 1 to draw but usually they give you the same needles and you can actually make it work with different types of needles. Um, and.
16:38.48
Shawna Potter
Yeah.
16:49.25
Adryan Corcione
Kind of have to especially with the supply chain and certain syringes not being in stock as often. Um, but once I posted on Twitter and had a call for sources. There were so many people were like yes like this like criminalization affects me in such a unique way.
17:06.74
Shawna Potter
Whom.
17:08.82
Adryan Corcione
And so differently so there were shared experiences but particularly the source that I interviewed at the beginnings. San Francisco is a nonbinary person who is traveling to back to New Mexico from visiting their parents in Connecticut and they were in a small town in Texas and then this kind of whole incident went down. Um, when they were pulled over just to take a rest because it was late at night on a Saturday night. Um, and they're just pulling over just to take a break and a police officer knocks on their window and then it kind of escalates into this searching their car. They find the syringes.
17:42.70
Shawna Potter
Um.
17:45.95
Adryan Corcione
Start mistaking them for like an injectable drug user which of course would not be deserving of that too because drug of policing is terrible for for everybody. Even if you are somebody who uses drugs. Um, but you know when the testosterone came into the picture they did not have good intentions. Um. Of how this was acquired. It didn't really matter that it was. There's prescription didn't matter that their name was on it right? Um, so yeah and it kind of escalated to just being in jail for at least a night maybe 2 um, so yeah, so and that is.
18:07.00
Shawna Potter
Right.
18:19.41
Shawna Potter
All because they had a prescription with their name on it in their car.
18:23.86
Adryan Corcione
Yeah, something that was legally prescribed to them. Um, and they were in um in the cell with ah heroin users too. So I think it is kind of like what? um. Injectable Drug users face a particular kind of stigma amongst people who use drugs. Um and how criminalization and stigma go hand in hand and I think like the because this kind of took like this.
18:41.51
Shawna Potter
Ah, and.
18:56.79
Adryan Corcione
Connection between what I do as a drug journalist but also carrying over into my personal experience and gender and it really calls for really how Health is policed certain people's house.
19:11.93
Shawna Potter
Ah.
19:15.25
Adryan Corcione
Police certain people's health are criminalized and drug laws need to be abolished Dea abolished a de the controlled substance act doesn't do anything to actually um curb addiction what we know about addiction and how to treat it. Needle exchange syringe exchanges harm reduction measures overdose prevention centers. These are things that actually save people's lives and keep people alive and provide them access to social support at shall they want to access these services and I think for um. Any lgbt person especially trans people. It would be really awesome reimagining a future where they can access. Um, gender affirming care in the same place where they get their needles I know at my doctor even though I'm prescribed. Ah, syringes I don't have a place to safely dispose of them there. Um, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, so I think it's just um, a lot of these a lot of these existing harm reduction measures that we know to be true for the general people who use drugs.
20:13.56
Shawna Potter
That's wild.
20:28.13
Adryan Corcione
Um, should absolutely be included and um, yeah, we need we need more social support for Lgbt people for Trans people for nonbinary people. Um, who ah you know need this education of also how to use their syringes.
20:44.64
Shawna Potter
Oh yeah, Yikes. Ah.
20:46.72
Adryan Corcione
Um, because particularly with testosterone.. It's a very long needle it Hurts. It's not fun. Um, yeah, and like it's There's lots of comprehensive drug education that ah a lot of people need um that the in-person support. Is really a lifeline too for people who it could be life or death whether they get access to hormones or not and other types of gender affirming care.
21:13.16
Shawna Potter
Other than supporting harm reduction efforts in your town. What is something that says gender allies can do to help or really anyone you know can do to help ah around this issue.
21:23.86
Adryan Corcione
Um, yeah, um, so because a lot of this goes back to like opposing this kind of like community policing and drug more mentality that yes, we absolutely have um people that.
21:35.99
Shawna Potter
And.
21:43.51
Adryan Corcione
Whose lives are lives and their families are torn apart by incarceration which is from more the abolitionist side I'm very mentioned to prison letter writing and creating connections with people behind Bars. Um, but particularly with drugs. It's also this part of like this interpersonal work of like. How are we policing each other.. How are we carrying these stigmas like that is kind of fed to us from Capitalism fed to us from police. How are we using these days against each other um like I'm thinking of just like um.
22:10.78
Shawna Potter
Um.
22:18.61
Adryan Corcione
At work just drug testing like the fact that we still have that especially in places where weed is legal now doing drug testing for Tc is like pretty arbitrary. Um, and you know other like but even other types of drug testing just beyond thc are pretty.
22:23.80
Shawna Potter
I Know it's ridiculous.
22:38.16
Adryan Corcione
Arbitrary and uses like a legal way for people be to be denied employment. Um, similarly to like criminal so-called criminal records are used to deny people employment. This is the legacy that the drug war has so even tearing. Down a part of like oh well does my workplace have this thing um have this drug placing does it. Do We deny people who have so-called criminal records and kind of dismiss them like these are issues that can hit somebody. Um. Whatever proximity to power you have in your workplace and even like if you air are in just your own family amongst your chosen family and friends. It's like how are we? How are we talking about people who use drugs I don't even want to say um the seaword but like.
23:14.85
Shawna Potter
Um.
23:32.93
Adryan Corcione
You know crackheads should be treated as a slur as it is like these should not be like we shouldn't be saying that um in a just flippant way. Um and really challenging our own biases towards people whose drugs I think is really important and part of the work too because that also falls under anti-racism work.
23:33.81
Shawna Potter
Um, yeah.
23:50.47
Shawna Potter
For sure.
23:51.36
Adryan Corcione
And falls under all of this social justice to make safest make spaces safer like in your book.
23:57.78
Shawna Potter
Ah, ah for sure. Wow. Um, thank you so much for joining me where can people find you where can people read your work. What do you want to promote.
24:07.35
Adryan Corcione
Yes, um, so people can follow me on social media http://twitter.com/mxthemme. It's also on Instagram don't use Instagram as much but also filter magazine so shout out. Everyone who I interviewed for filter and thanks to castilly and will the editors there that are always supportive so supportive of my work. Um, and yeah so I think and also on Facebook also makes them and Instagram makes them but Twitter is probably. The best place to find me and if you would just want to learn more about all of the work I've done Adryancorcione.com is a great place to start.
24:46.93
Shawna Potter
Cool I'll put the links in the show transcription for sure. Um Adryan. Thank you so much for spending your morning with me I really appreciate it.
24:55.35
Adryan Corcione
Yeah, thanks so much Shawna this was really great.
[Now what?]
Shawna Potter: Thanks again to Adryan for spending some time with me, and stay tuned for a bonus rant session where we complain about Joe Biden and his administration's quick reversal of what was to be a historic investment in community-led harm reduction efforts. Not sure if it’s going to go on Youtube or if it will be a Patreon exclusive just yet, but to be safe follow me on socials and join my Patreon! I just revamped all my benefit tiers, so if you were holding out before, you might just find something you like now, check it out. Patreon.com/shawnapotter
Well that’s it for now, but keep listening for a quick ask at the end. You can support this podcast by sharing, subscribing, and reviewing it - it’s free and it helps. To find the transcripts, or find out more about what I do, my book, my trainings, my patreon, head to shawnapotter.com
To learn about all things WOW, head to linktr.ee/waronwomen
Now if this episode inspires you to write a song about testosterone being a controlled substance or all the unreasonable hoops trans and gnc folks have to go through for basic healthcare, let me know, I want to hear it! Or if you know of a song that already exists, share it with me and I’ll share it with everyone...Until next time…